Return to: notes & minutes from our meetings.

12/22/06 chat log

10:02 A group member named Drew Frobozz gave you Free Area! W00t!, Progressive Island (184, 61, 25).

10:03 Ruby Glitter: Hey.

10:03 Drew Frobozz: wow new hair!

10:03 Ruby Glitter: I'

10:03 Ruby Glitter: I've been looking for black hair for a while.

10:03 Ruby Glitter: This isn't exactly what I wanted, but it's better.

10:04 Drew Frobozz: looks nice

10:04 Ruby Glitter: Thanks.

10:04 Ruby Glitter: Is that that art athat errchack was talking about?

10:04 Drew Frobozz: might be-- not sure

10:05 Drew Frobozz: so I haven't spoken w/ Hayduke about moving the island adjacent to Commonwealth yet, but he is online

10:05 Ruby Glitter: My colleagues has our office holiday party in SL this morning!

10:05 Ruby Glitter: haD

10:06 Drew Frobozz: cool

10:06 Ruby Glitter: Yeah. he's doing godd stuff, but I've found he's not as good at helpign others unles sthey are into the same thing as him.

10:06 Ruby Glitter: no slight against him, he's just very into HIS thing. and his thign is good stuff, so that's not bad.

10:06 Ruby Glitter: Just my experience.

10:07 Drew Frobozz: gotcha

10:08 Drew Frobozz: his island is beautiful but also not necessarily set up well for large events too

10:08 Ruby Glitter: yeah. although maybe it could be if you convince him. I don't know.

10:08 SL Boutique Vendor gave you LF Black Dreadhead Prims and base..

10:09 Drew Frobozz: well what would be the pros of doing it there?

10:09 Ruby Glitter: Physical and mental proximity to other progressive groups and to info island

10:09 Ruby Glitter: and possibly having him create things so we don'thave to.

10:09 Ruby Glitter: but that might bne an issue since you ahev peopel to build.

10:09 Ruby Glitter: might NOT be...

10:10 Ruby Glitter: So what were we supposed to talk about today? ;-)

10:10 Ruby Glitter: whether we need an island?

10:10 Drew Frobozz: :)

10:10 Ruby Glitter: I'm pretty fried.

10:10 Ruby Glitter: all iremember was that we were supposed to meet

10:10 Drew Frobozz: wanted to decide on a permanent location

10:10 Drew Frobozz: for RootsCampSL

10:11 Drew Frobozz: so that we could have a home, have people drop-in off hours and register their interest so we can grow the group, etc.

10:11 Drew Frobozz: set up good screens for notes, presentations, links to RL events, etc.

10:11 Drew Frobozz: at least that was my thinking

10:12 Ruby Glitter: I think all agree we should have a permanent home, the question is more of whether it needs to be on an island where we have a lot of freedom and flexibility or whether we should be wiht others, like on Commonwealth or similar places.

10:13 Ruby Glitter: so i guess that depends on what we want to do w/ it.

10:13 Drew Frobozz: good questions

10:13 Ruby Glitter: what kind of plans or ideas do you have?

10:14 Drew Frobozz: growing a community here to help there to be a Progressive culture and community in SL

10:15 Drew Frobozz: making it available to people in RL progressive communities

10:15 Drew Frobozz: as a tool to help them do their work

10:15 Ruby Glitter: OK, but what kind of plans for the *space*?

10:15 Drew Frobozz: ah! :)

10:15 Ruby Glitter: or what physical (SL) activities?

10:15 Ruby Glitter: like, we clearly need a meeting space, some displays...

10:16 Drew Frobozz: basically what we had before on on Better World at least, but bigger, with more displays for notes, real-world video streams, and other content

10:16 Ruby Glitter: Cool.

10:16 Drew Frobozz: nothing TOO complex

10:16 Ruby Glitter: I'm trying to think of what other stuff that we might not have thoguht of that we might want to do...

10:16 Drew Frobozz: perhaps displays around the edges of organizations that people in the group work with / support / respect

10:17 Ruby Glitter: like a stage or a dancefloor? (I don't think so, but I'm just brainstorming)

10:17 Drew Frobozz: to share info and opportunities

10:17 Drew Frobozz: especially off-hours

10:17 Drew Frobozz: I mean, when Rootscamp isn't in session

10:17 Drew Frobozz: so there is still stuff to do there

10:17 Ruby Glitter: so an external display, that doesn't requite coming inside a building

10:17 Drew Frobozz: yes

10:17 Drew Frobozz: stage/platform is interesting

10:17 Ruby Glitter: how a bout a desk?

10:18 Drew Frobozz: I've found that presentation spaces I haven't found much utility for flat surfaces, but sure

10:18 Ruby Glitter: if there's not anything that requires large amounts of space, a buildign at commonwealth might do the trick - IF we have premissions to create stuff there, etc.

10:18 Drew Frobozz: oops ignore that mashed up sentence

10:18 Ruby Glitter: :)

10:18 Drew Frobozz: if it could be a dedicated to RootsCamp building, yes.

10:18 Ruby Glitter: i'm not proposing a desk, I'm just asking... trying to think of stuff.

10:18 Drew Frobozz: though I'd prefer outside

10:19 Ruby Glitter: the buildings at commonwealth are pretty open-air. ;-)

10:19 Ruby Glitter: also have you figured out what it would involve ot get moved next to him?

10:19 Drew Frobozz: cool. also would want to understand better about perms, capacity, etc.

10:19 Drew Frobozz: Quicktime stream kept crashing there and i think people said because the island was too perm heavy

10:20 Ruby Glitter: hmm, good point.

10:20 Drew Frobozz: we could find that it's not possible to support groups as large there

10:20 Drew Frobozz: but I don't really understand the technical constraints

10:20 Ruby Glitter: he's doing a lot here, that could restrict other tuff.

10:20 Ruby Glitter: me neither.

10:20 Drew Frobozz: anyone objective we could query?

10:20 Drew Frobozz: I could ask Nobody...

10:20 Ruby Glitter: In kenso, knows this stuff. I could ask her.

10:20 Drew Frobozz: cool

10:21 Ruby Glitter: She's online. I'll IM her right now.

10:22 Drew Frobozz: re: your concern re: Hayduke being most interested in HIS stuff, do you think if he granted us dedicated space we could count on it really being available for whatever the Netroots group wants to do?

10:22 Drew Frobozz: long-term?

10:22 Ruby Glitter: Hmm, well probably. I don't think he's trying to take advantage of anyone. he really wants ot help. he just wants to do it his way, mostly.

10:23 Ruby Glitter: And he can be kind of competitive, so he sort of wants to get everyone into his "side" or his space.

10:23 Drew Frobozz: hrm

10:23 Ruby Glitter: I share with him some very deep reservations abou the current TechSoup approach.

10:24 Drew Frobozz: what's their approach?

10:24 Ruby Glitter: they are getting an office complex for NPs donated by Anshe Chung, millionaire SL real estate developer.

10:24 Ruby Glitter: In is coming here.

10:25 Ruby Glitter: So Hayduke & I both think that's not a great idea.

10:25 Ruby Glitter: Hey in!

10:25 Ruby Glitter: You know Drew. This is his new island.

10:25 In Kenzo: Hello!

10:26 In Kenzo: nice new roots here!

10:26 Ruby Glitter: Yes.

10:26 Ruby Glitter: Here's our question: We're trying to decide on a permanent home for RootsCamp. We could co-locate on Commonwealth Island, but not sure what the limitations woudl be. There is so much other stuff there, might it slow us down or limit us?

10:26 Ruby Glitter: or we could do it here, where we can do anything...

10:26 In Kenzo: where are we now?

10:26 In Kenzo: looking at the map

10:26 Ruby Glitter: I don't know.

10:26 Ruby Glitter: I don't get SL geography. ;-)

10:27 In Kenzo: we're an island near a place called secret seductions

10:27 Drew Frobozz: hey in! (belated reaction! :)

10:27 In Kenzo: i hope people won't think of different types of progressive ;-)

10:27 Ruby Glitter: someone recently noted that "sceret seductions" is to the NE, so he may want to move anyway.

10:27 Ruby Glitter: how hard would it be to move next to Commonwealth and Info Island?

10:27 In Kenzo: it's nice to have room to play and build something that suits you.

10:27 Drew Frobozz: the island is definitely going to be moved

10:27 In Kenzo: we looked at moving up there but i think riversong was a no go on it

10:28 In Kenzo: that's ok, we're building a full sim for manormeta in 2007 and passing on our land there to others.

10:28 Ruby Glitter: How come?

10:28 Ruby Glitter: Oh cool.

10:28 In Kenzo: i'm looking at full sim spaces connected to nonprofit/educational resources.

10:28 In Kenzo: and will mirror to teen grid.

10:28 In Kenzo: i like this so far....what will be here?

10:29 In Kenzo: is there a common theme beyond progressive orgs?

10:29 Ruby Glitter: Drew, do you want to talk abou tyour plans?

10:29 Ruby Glitter: HEY, MULTITASKER!

10:29 Drew Frobozz: sure-- sorry! :)

10:30 In Kenzo: I have a green living center looking for a space inworld, wasn't sure whether we would cohost them or find them another partner to live with.

10:30 Drew Frobozz: so this island was bought and fees paid for by a consulting firm I helped to start that serves mostly nonprofit and progresive political organizations, and wants to do engineering to integrate Drupal with Second Life, among other things.

10:30 Drew Frobozz: but they really don't need this much space

10:30 Drew Frobozz: and also always do pro bono work

10:31 Drew Frobozz: so are donating 50% of the island to worthy groups

10:31 In Kenzo: oh nice!

10:31 Ruby Glitter: So this is trellon's island?

10:31 In Kenzo: i work with a nonprofit fiscal sponsor that has 120+ progressive orgs

10:31 Drew Frobozz: probably going to split off the two halves, use one for their commercial (albeit still progressive) stuff, and half for all the donated groups

10:31 Drew Frobozz: nice! :)

10:31 In Kenzo: they want me to do an intro course in SL soon for progressive nonprofit leaders.

10:31 Drew Frobozz: yes trellon

10:31 Ruby Glitter: Great!

10:32 Drew Frobozz: that's AWESOME In!

10:32 Ruby Glitter: Let me know if i can help w/ that, In.

10:32 Drew Frobozz: likewise

10:32 In Kenzo: the green living center may fit here, it's a social venture to connect businesses and individuals producing green products and services.

10:32 Ruby Glitter: I've been doing it peivemeal, getting folks in here...

10:32 Drew Frobozz: I'd so love to help increase the SL competency of our RL communities

10:32 Drew Frobozz: I think it's going to be an important online organizing platform

10:32 In Kenzo: lately late January before we get time to start up those sessions, we'll likely do a few SL tutorials with nonprofits in the spring.

10:32 In Kenzo: this is a great tool.

10:32 Ruby Glitter: Yeah.

10:33 In Kenzo: just having free space is huge.

10:33 In Kenzo: i didn't pay for my space the first six months and it allowed me to root and figure out how to get things going.

10:33 Drew Frobozz: well definitely feel free to offer some of the best space here

10:33 Drew Frobozz: if they're not already well served elsewhere

10:33 In Kenzo: I'll bring Cobalt by with the green living center after the holidays, and a few other friends.

10:34 In Kenzo: we have many newbies not inworld yet

10:34 In Kenzo: who have asked me to help them figure it out.

10:34 In Kenzo: so this is a great place to send them, especially if they cannot do $500 a year right away.

10:34 Ruby Glitter: Any thgouths about sharing space with Commonwealth? Didn't you help build that?

10:34 In Kenzo: what else is here so far?

10:34 In Kenzo: Trellon, your group?

10:34 Ruby Glitter: there's a leacture space on top of that hill thing.

10:34 Ruby Glitter: tjat's about it I think.

10:35 Drew Frobozz: I helped to start Trellon before I joined CivicSpace. not involved too much day to day, but I can have operational control of this island

10:35 Drew Frobozz: so no one will pull the plug on anyone

10:35 In Kenzo: that's wonderful Drew.

10:35 In Kenzo: a rare gift inworld to have secure space.

10:35 In Kenzo: Better World Island was that gift for me this year and it made all the difference.

10:36 Ruby Glitter: So you think we shoudl take advantage of this?

10:36 In Kenzo: this is a great little spot!

10:36 Drew Frobozz: really thinking to have it essentially be structured as two islands-- one for their clients, one for progressive communities.

10:36 In Kenzo: drew, ask hayduke about moving.

10:36 Drew Frobozz: but don't want to reinvent any wheels

10:36 Ruby Glitter: he invited us to have space on Commonwealth.

10:36 Drew Frobozz: this 50% of it I'd just want to be put to the most useful use

10:36 In Kenzo: you can go half and half for now and migrate a bit.

10:36 In Kenzo: as your work grows pick up the second sim.

10:36 In Kenzo: we're doing that with another client too.

10:36 Drew Frobozz: about moving the island adjacent?

10:36 Drew Frobozz: yep

10:37 In Kenzo: yes, moving the island adjacent would flow well, i think he's starting to find his groups and there will be plenty of overlap too.

10:37 Ruby Glitter: Drew, can you offer a guarantee tha the lad will always be free? or at least a term?

10:37 Ruby Glitter: the laNd

10:37 Drew Frobozz: he said he was open to it, but the only stumbling block I'd think could be the 50% of this that one would be for client work.

10:37 Drew Frobozz: yes always free

10:38 Drew Frobozz: only possible risk would be if Trellon went out of business or something

10:38 In Kenzo: Usu was also doing client work connected to one of the info islands, right?

10:38 Drew Frobozz: but in that case I'd be sure to cover fees myself for a few months

10:38 Drew Frobozz: to give people time to move or take the whole thing over or something

10:38 Ruby Glitter: Usu's spave is calle dthe Greenhouse, it's near a welcome center or something.

10:39 Ruby Glitter: it's more nonproft-y. this is more political advocacy.

10:39 In Kenzo: i heard he had another sim for clients.

10:39 Ruby Glitter: Oh. I don't know.

10:39 In Kenzo: political and media stuff.

10:39 Ruby Glitter: Cool.

10:39 In Kenzo: or maybe it's coming, not sure.

10:39 In Kenzo: he wanted to do barack obama's sim ;-)

10:39 Ruby Glitter: heh.

10:39 Ruby Glitter: I'll do John edwards. ;-)

10:40 Drew Frobozz: yeah that is one distinction-- I do think this place will be pretty political

10:40 In Kenzo: i'm sticking with Saul Williams, going with the underdog ;-)

10:40 Drew Frobozz: lol

10:40 Ruby Glitter: awesome!

10:40 In Kenzo: go ahead and make it political

10:40 Ruby Glitter: he's brilliant.

10:40 In Kenzo: need more of that inworld.

10:40 In Kenzo: yeah, i started stickers in 2004 that had his pic and said 4 more years -- keep hope alive!

10:40 Drew Frobozz: great! :)

10:40 In Kenzo: so political is good, i will definitely send a few people your way

10:40 In Kenzo: we work with voter action, greg palast...

10:41 In Kenzo: lots of the down and dirty details of the electorate are under our fiscal sponsor group

10:41 Ruby Glitter: Wow. Good stuff!

10:41 Ruby Glitter: So it sounds liek we should keep this independent space, but see if we can move it near Commonwealth.

10:42 In Kenzo: definitely

10:42 Ruby Glitter: how hard is it to get islands moved?

10:42 In Kenzo: keep the flow though

10:42 In Kenzo: not hard

10:42 In Kenzo: costs $150

10:42 Ruby Glitter: will we be too political for info island?

10:42 Ruby Glitter: I guess not if they have code pink & co over there.

10:42 In Kenzo: if you're on the other side of commonwealth not an issue

10:42 Ruby Glitter: Good.

10:43 In Kenzo: i think we were looking at the spot above healthinfo island, that's no longer the plan so there may be expansion room there.

10:43 In Kenzo: but i don't know, all neighbors must agree.

10:43 Ruby Glitter: good to know.

10:43 Ruby Glitter: i see.

10:43 In Kenzo: either way we can send a few more people your way

10:43 Drew Frobozz: I think we'd LOVE advice on where to locate this ship...

10:43 Ruby Glitter: :-)

10:43 In Kenzo: no other immediately great ideas come to mind.

10:43 Drew Frobozz: since we're definitely moving away from seductions...

10:44 Drew Frobozz: ok well we'll talk first to Hayduke.

10:44 In Kenzo: Riversong at Better World Island is afraid of progressives....

10:44 Ruby Glitter: Drew, want to start the proces sof applying to get moved?

10:44 In Kenzo: she's canadian and doesn't get it.

10:44 Ruby Glitter: yeah, PT too.

10:44 In Kenzo: so don't bother there.

10:44 In Kenzo: it's a mixed bag there, very nonpolitical.

10:44 Drew Frobozz: ok will do-- but don't we need lcoation confirmation first?

10:45 In Kenzo: no, you can move at any time

10:45 In Kenzo: get everyone on board then sail the ship

10:45 Ruby Glitter: It was pretty funny how he's sharing info abou tthe war and "doesn't want to be political." i said you *are* whethr you like it or not!

10:45 In Kenzo: it's ok to let it grow organically

10:45 In Kenzo: yes, same with camp darfur, impossible not to be somewhat political

10:45 In Kenzo: but it's a scary time for many

10:45 Ruby Glitter: yeah. true.

10:45 In Kenzo: especially those in public view who do certain types of aid work.

10:45 Ruby Glitter: peopel lieterally don't have as much freedom of expression under this regime

10:46 In Kenzo: lots of aid workers getting mauled in africa, and PT has seen too much death these days too.

10:46 Ruby Glitter: Ug.

10:46 In Kenzo: oooh, every one fo the bill of rights

10:46 In Kenzo: would like a large Bill of Rights educational center

10:46 Ruby Glitter: oh cool!

10:46 In Kenzo: so we can see which ones have been destroyed

10:46 Ruby Glitter: I want tot alk w/ you about that... the ACLU is one of my clients right now.

10:46 In Kenzo: i've had good ties with ACLU in Mass, not in CA yet.

10:47 Ruby Glitter: This is the national aclu. specifically this project: http://aclu.tv

10:47 Ruby Glitter: But I'll bug you by e-mail and we can find a time to talk in January, OK?

10:47 In Kenzo: sounds good ruby

10:48 In Kenzo: the calendar is booking up fast, three builds on the table right now ;-)

10:48 Ruby Glitter: Wow.

10:48 In Kenzo: have a team hiring though to help me

10:48 In Kenzo: been hiring one a week since november.

10:48 Ruby Glitter: Cool.

10:48 Drew Frobozz: wow good for you In! :)

10:49 Drew Frobozz: any interest in brainstorming integration with other online community platforms like Drupal?

10:49 In Kenzo: definitely!

10:49 Drew Frobozz: or do you know others up to that?

10:49 In Kenzo: I am not drupal saavy yet

10:49 Drew Frobozz: could be Mambo or Plone too of course.

10:49 In Kenzo: we had planned to build our alpha site in drupal while we work on the larger community building needs.

10:49 Drew Frobozz: the use cases are similar. slightly different engineering

10:50 In Kenzo: i like ruby on rails and want to see us integrate there, but not sure how that will look with SL

10:50 In Kenzo: we are eager to look at how to integrate SL into web clients for kids

10:50 In Kenzo: so we're down the line a bit, trying to figure out long term integration issues.

10:50 In Kenzo: so that by the end of 2008 we can have handhelds and easy web clients for kids to use that will help them work and play better ;-)

10:51 Drew Frobozz: cool! well we have some modest drupal engineering resources to throw at it, so let's stay in touch about it.

10:51 Drew Frobozz: there's a lot of activity here in 50 person events that is relevant to the 100,000 person online communities resident in many drupal sites

10:51 Drew Frobozz: and vice-versa

10:51 In Kenzo: we're building on for many things right now...

10:51 In Kenzo: all in stages.

10:51 Drew Frobozz: that's the crux of it for me

10:51 In Kenzo: i searched for a drupal developer all year

10:52 In Kenzo: and couldn't find one to help us ;-)

10:52 Drew Frobozz: wow

10:52 Drew Frobozz: yeah it has been a hot market

10:52 Ruby Glitter: Dag.

10:52 In Kenzo: finally found someone who would trade me services (that green living center group_

10:52 Ruby Glitter: We have some in house at Netcentric.

10:52 In Kenzo: but we haven't had time to connect.

10:52 In Kenzo: yes, but we're all volunteer.

10:52 Ruby Glitter: They don't seem to stay long, though.

10:52 In Kenzo: and had no underwriter on the drupal project, so it never got done this year.

10:52 In Kenzo: yes, happens.

10:52 In Kenzo: we've decided to seek sponsorship on that element and get a pro team in here to do it right.

10:53 In Kenzo: our vision for that piece is too big to compromise with my hacking.

10:53 Drew Frobozz: Trellon always has one pro bono project at any given time, so feel free to send people to apply. Doing Oceana pro bono at the moment.

10:53 Ruby Glitter: ;-)

10:54 In Kenzo: i have to run in a bit.....oceana, i have heard of...

10:54 Ruby Glitter: There's someone else here on the island!

10:54 Drew Frobozz: really cool folks @ Oceana.

10:54 Ruby Glitter: Thanks as always for the advice, In.

10:54 In Kenzo: thanks Drew. I will let you know what we need! Finally found a management team to join me.

10:54 In Kenzo: that was the biggest step.

10:54 Ruby Glitter: Hello, Marti.

10:54 Drew Frobozz: well done! :)

10:54 Ruby Glitter: How do you find yourself here?

10:54 Marti Ariantho: hello :-)

10:54 Drew Frobozz: hi Marti.

10:54 In Kenzo: i must run but thanks for the tour, and good luck rub!

10:55 In Kenzo: ruby!

10:55 In Kenzo: maybe a tree meeting space that grows?

10:55 Ruby Glitter: TTYL!

10:55 Drew Frobozz: Ruby, any other questions re: Commonwealth vs here?

10:55 In Kenzo: rootscamp can be real root benches...

10:55 Drew Frobozz: thanks In!

10:55 In Kenzo: good luck

10:55 Ruby Glitter: Oh that would be fun to meet in a tree!

10:55 Drew Frobozz: cool idea

10:55 Ruby Glitter: OK, Drew I'm going ot run. I've been in world all day and I needt o eat some Rl food. ;-)

10:56 Ruby Glitter: rL

10:56 Ruby Glitter: whatever. :P

10:56 Drew Frobozz: I guess my question is, are we ready to declare a location, or shall we ask Hayduke what he could offer

10:56 Drew Frobozz: once we have a location secured we can encourage group members to help build

10:57 Ruby Glitter: I feel liek we should keep this space and see if we can move next to his island.

10:57 Drew Frobozz: ok. want me to ask him?

10:57 Ruby Glitter: Yes,.

10:57 Ruby Glitter: You need to do island-related stuff b/c you own it.

10:57 Drew Frobozz: ah right.

10:57 Ruby Glitter: i can't move it, etc.

10:58 Drew Frobozz: and in the meantime, I guess we can invite people with building skills to start working on this space, unless you want a different parcel on this island.

10:58 Drew Frobozz: we can still terraform it however we want

10:58 Drew Frobozz: put up a mountain somewhere, etc

10:58 Ruby Glitter: well let's talk about *what* they should build, right?

10:58 Drew Frobozz: yeah...

10:58 Ruby Glitter: mountain's are not that helpful, IMO

10:58 Drew Frobozz: topic for our next RootsCamp meeting perhaps?

10:59 Drew Frobozz: I agree re: mountains-- just saying, for example...

10:59 Ruby Glitter: I guess, but y'all are discussing the 1/27 action, right?

10:59 Drew Frobozz: ah true

10:59 Drew Frobozz: in 2 weeks though, right?

10:59 Ruby Glitter: I can put some of the stuff fropm RC back here.

10:59 Ruby Glitter: i thin most of it is in my inventory.

10:59 Drew Frobozz: cool

10:59 Ruby Glitter: Oh, OK.

10:59 Drew Frobozz: and let's link to the new location from the wiki

10:59 Ruby Glitter: OK.

10:59 Drew Frobozz: I'll try to be here next week anyway, but no one could commit

11:00 Ruby Glitter: So 1/4/07 we will discuss what we want to have here.

11:00 Ruby Glitter: meanwhile you can be workign on moving it.

11:00 Drew Frobozz: ok sounds good

11:00 Ruby Glitter: ditto, re: next week. I have somethign else. but if it falls through I can come.

11:00 Drew Frobozz: thanks Ruby-- I know you're fried! :)

11:01 Ruby Glitter: Thank you too! including for your patience.

11:01 Drew Frobozz: :)

11:01 Ruby Glitter: we are balancing each other out. ;-)

11:01 Ruby Glitter: I'll come back later and put some thing up here.

11:01 Ruby Glitter: thingS