12:48 errcheck Hicks: Hye Ruby

12:48 Ruby Glitter: hey y'all.

12:48 Old McDunnough: hi.

12:49 Ruby Glitter: These stools are goofy.

12:49 Old McDunnough: My feet down't touch the ground here.

12:49 Ruby Glitter: I tried ot make the seats point the right , but I have just been doing it manually.

12:49 Old McDunnough: I feel like my son.

12:49 Ruby Glitter: I hope that's annoying. ;-)

12:49 Ruby Glitter: Nice.

12:49 Old McDunnough: no. I'm young again! Whoopee!

12:50 Ruby Glitter: welcome to my world, I'm 5'0" in RL.

12:50 errcheck Hicks: Well thanks for fixing it, I don't like pointing the wrong way

12:50 Ruby Glitter: Cool.

12:50 Ruby Glitter: I actually meant ot say that I hope it's NOT annoying.. but you get the idea.

12:50 Krono Pro is Online

12:50 errcheck Hicks: I usually say the opposite, it's a technique

12:51 Old McDunnough: got to plug in my power cord. That would be embarrassing if my computer shut off.

12:51 Ruby Glitter: Morris, I don't you don't mind me spinnign your chair.

12:51 Morris Vig: hi gang

12:51 Ruby Glitter: Hiya.

12:51 Morris Vig: thx

12:52 Morris Vig: I'm a little directionally challenged.

12:52 Morris Vig: lol

12:52 Ruby Glitter: Actually, the chairs are. :-(

12:52 Morris Vig: i c

12:52 Hayduke Ebisu is Online

12:52 errcheck Hicks: Relative to Machina I saw 2 violinists the other day in SL Venice Beach who has their sound loops coordinated, probably using a communications channel

12:53 Morris Vig: ruby - you organized this camp?

12:53 errcheck Hicks: This led me to believe that group chants, or sequenced sounds could be machina triggered from a group of people cattying the scripted objects

12:53 Old McDunnough: Chris Raphael is working on some virtual studio applications that help sync that kind of stuff.

12:53 Old McDunnough: Not in SL

12:53 Ruby Glitter: I co-organized it with Drew Frobozz.

12:54 Morris Vig: u did great

12:55 Ruby Glitter: Thanks! We had very little time as we had the idea the week before the elction and decided on the 3rd to start it on the 8th.

12:55 Ruby Glitter: It's been a whirlwind.

12:55 Morris Vig: all the more impressive

12:55 Ruby Glitter: I'm very proud.

12:56 Ruby Glitter: It just reinforces the general appoprach of getting good peopel together and giving them the infrastructure to do good things together.

12:56 Ruby Glitter: How did you find out about it, Morris?

12:56 Morris Vig: I think I stumbled onto this island, read the sign, and that's all she wrote.

12:57 Ruby Glitter: Wow, cool!

12:57 Ruby Glitter: So all that promotion we did was for naught. ;-)

12:57 Joshua Holder: Same here!

12:57 errcheck Hicks: I blogged Rootscamp here: http://www.lavoice.org/index.php?name=News&catid=&topic=7

12:57 Joshua Holder: My first day on SL, and this is the first region I've visited!

12:57 Ruby Glitter: I think it was a good idea to do it on Better World island.

12:57 Morris Vig: wierdest thing...I met Ana Herzog while wandering around. Then to see her part of this group...small world.

12:57 Morris Vig: Yes, good idea.

12:57 Ruby Glitter: Awesome. You're off to a good start.

12:57 Morris Vig: Welcome Josh.

12:58 Joshua Holder: Thanks.

12:58 Old McDunnough: errcheck: I got an internal error on that link

12:58 Freerange Proctor: hi all

12:59 Morris Vig: hi free

12:59 errcheck Hicks: Try here and then click on "Power" : http://www.lavoice.org/index.php?name=Topics

12:59 Morris Vig: you all from la?

13:00 errcheck Hicks: I'm from LA

13:00 Freerange Proctor: Nope, UK

13:00 Old McDunnough: cool. thanks

13:00 Ruby Glitter: That's a great write-up, errcheck.

13:00 errcheck Hicks: TX

13:00 Morris Vig: I'm from central ohio

13:00 Joshua Holder: Long Island, NY here.

13:00 Ruby Glitter: I'm tagging it in delicious so it will show up on our site now.

13:01 Ruby Glitter: I'm from Chapel Hill, NC.

13:02 Morris Vig: excellent writeup, err

13:02 Aldon Huffhines is Online

13:02 Ruby Glitter: Do y'all want to get started?

13:02 errcheck Hicks: THX

13:02 Ruby Glitter: We tednt o have some stragglers...

13:02 Freerange Proctor: yeah

13:02 Old McDunnough: I'm fine whenever.

13:03 Old McDunnough: Does someone want to be the secretary for this?

13:03 Ruby Glitter: I will be the "sceretary" for this session, so I will keep the chat log and take pictures.

13:03 Old McDunnough: thanks

13:03 Ruby Glitter: Does everyone agree to the log and pictures being posted online.

13:03 Morris Vig: yup

13:03 Old McDunnough: yes

13:03 Joshua Holder: Surel

13:03 Freerange Proctor: sure

13:03 Aldon Huffhines: yes

13:03 Ruby Glitter: Great, thanks.

13:04 Ruby Glitter: Old, the floor is yours. You can start with introductions if you like.

13:04 Old McDunnough: I'll start with mine, then we can go around the circle.

13:04 Old McDunnough: Hello, and thank you for coming. My name is Kevin Makice. I'm a Ph.D. student at the School of Informatics at Indiana University.

13:05 Old McDunnough: I struggle to see where people are, so is Aldon next?

13:05 errcheck Hicks: I'm Eric Ahlberg, an Artist, Engineer, and Activist in Venice Beach California

13:05 Ruby Glitter: We can all go at once, It's faster. ;-)

13:05 Old McDunnough: ok

13:05 Aldon Huffhines: Okay... I'm AldonHynes... technologist for the Lamont campaign... old geek, etc.

13:06 Freerange Proctor: I'm from Dover, UK. I'm ready to tear it all down and start again

13:06 Joshua Holder: Hi guys. My name is Ilya. I'm a 1L law student and former Democratic campaing staffer on anumber of races. It's my first day on SL.

13:06 Ruby Glitter: I'm Ruby Sinreich in Chapel Hill, NC. co-organizer of rootscampSL. in RL I help progressive advocacy groups use network-centric strategies at netcentriccampaigns.org

13:06 Morris Vig: I'm Morris Jones. New to central Ohio. Watched a red state turn blue overnight. Fascinating. Worked on a couple congressionals, and was Dean regional organizer. Used DeanSpace, Aldon!

13:07 Old McDunnough: Did we miss anyone for introductions?

13:07 Ruby Glitter: trueno, just arrived.

13:07 trueno Wildcat: hi everu body

13:07 Old McDunnough: hi

13:08 Old McDunnough: I'd like to open this session up by explaining a bit about my background that led to the idea of Mutual Politics and Local Emphasis, explaining what I mean by that, and then open up discussion about ways we can re-imagine politics into a more inclusive,

13:08 Old McDunnough: Forgive me if I yabber on for a little while. Feel free to interrupt if you have questions or comments.

13:08 Old McDunnough: I'm the proverbial jack of all trades, master of none. I have an M.A. in physics, an M.S. in Human-Computer Interaction Design, and in between I spent time at the DePaul University Theatre School as an actor.

13:08 Old McDunnough: My interests are very eclectic, from movies to sports, from parenting to politics, from writing to design and theory.

13:09 Old McDunnough: Currently, my research interests fall somewhere in the middle of Complex Systems, HCI/d and Social Informatics. That space is best described as "online community."

13:09 Old McDunnough: This Friday and Saturday, I'm having Bloomington host five sessions of a RootsCamp. It is a different kind of format than here, more like open spaces. It is also an open event, not just for progressives.

13:09 Aldon Huffhines: Old Mac: Are you involved with AoIR?

13:10 Old McDunnough: First time organizing anything outside of a bbq. We'll see in a couple days how well that works.

13:10 Aldon Huffhines: (Association of Internet Researchers...) aoir.org)

13:10 Morris Vig: Get yer pointers from Ruby, Old

13:10 Ruby Glitter: :-)

13:10 Old McDunnough: No, although a group I worked with did a research project at a conference a year ago there on college student online activity

13:11 Old McDunnough: My political interests have roots back in Watergate (it was the first newspaper headline I remember seeing as a kid), but my activism is largely tied to jumping into cyberspace for the first time in 1995.

13:11 Aldon Huffhines: I spoke at AoIR in 2003 about the Dean campaign.

13:11 Old McDunnough: I was a programmer for TicketsNow at that time.

13:11 Old McDunnough: Now I'm a poor grad student with a family to feed.

13:11 Old McDunnough: 3rdParty (http://3rdparty.org) is a nearly decade-old attempt at creating a new political party platform.

13:12 Old McDunnough: Jeff Poehlmann (a California filmmaker) and I launched the site in 1997, upgrading it in 1998 and mostly watched people come and go as it failed to get critical mass.

13:12 Old McDunnough: Including us.

13:12 Mobile Widget is Online

13:12 Freerange Proctor: lol

13:12 Old McDunnough: That's the biggest reason for a lack of traction, of course. Neither Jeff nor myself could devote much time to the project.

13:13 Old McDunnough: I went two years without making any contribution, which became very convenient when I wanted to re-engage 3rd Party with an academic research study.

13:13 Old McDunnough: PoliticWiki (http://3rdparty.org/politicwiki) was a 6-month study where participants were asked to use a wiki to construct a political platform from scratch. It ran from summer 2005-January 2006.

13:13 Old McDunnough: There's a paper presented at WikiSym 2006 about it (http://www.wikisym.org/ws2006/proceedings/p105.pdf), if you want the sterile details.

13:13 Old McDunnough: But the key take-homes for me were these:

13:13 Old McDunnough: 1) Find a way to get to people, rather than rely on party organization for recruitment.

13:14 Redaktisto Noble: Hello there. I may be writing a story on this event for SL News Network (http://slnn.com). Does anyone object to being quoted?

13:14 errcheck Hicks: No

13:14 Morris Vig: nope - feel free

13:14 Old McDunnough: not at all, Redaktiso. This is being transcripted

13:14 Joshua Holder: Feel free.

13:14 Old McDunnough: 2) There seems to be a barrier wiki authors hit when encountering pre-existing content.

13:14 Old McDunnough: 3) Building a platform from broad domains, like "Education" or "Economy," is ineffectual.

13:14 Old McDunnough: and 4) Personal interests are motivators for participation.

13:14 Freerange Proctor: no-one's feeling me, thankyou very much

13:15 Ruby Glitter: ha ha.

13:15 Ruby Glitter: ...

13:15 Old McDunnough: I also did some work in agent-based modeling and a local unconference, looking specifically at how conversations form.

13:15 Old McDunnough: If you are interested later, I can come back to those things.

13:15 Old McDunnough: Mutual Politics is the concept that came out of all this research.

13:15 Old McDunnough: I've still got a site about it (http://3rdparty.org/mutualpolitics/), if anyone wants to take a look.

13:15 Old McDunnough: The idea is this: Traditional politics is about persuasion.

13:16 Aldon Huffhines: Old Mc: I did some work on trying to affect the 2004 Democratic Platform, as well as various platforms in NC Democratic politics using CivicSpace.

13:16 Old McDunnough: That's great. How did that work for you?

13:16 Aldon Huffhines: Well, I set up http://platform.smartcampaigns.com, a CS based site.

13:17 Aldon Huffhines: We posted information about who the delegates to the convention would be... Who was on the platform committee,

13:17 Aldon Huffhines: Copies of the platform, etc...

13:17 Old McDunnough: Were there ways to interact to shape some communal content?

13:17 Morris Vig: aldon: CS?

13:17 Aldon Huffhines: Mostly people used this information and worked offline to contact people on the platform committee to make changes.

13:17 Old McDunnough: Were they mostly local users?

13:17 Aldon Huffhines: CS: CivicSpace .. Drupal based content management system,

13:17 Morris Vig: ok

13:18 Aldon Huffhines: What happened was various people who went to the platform committee meeting in Florida, used the information to connect

13:18 Aldon Huffhines: And ended up getting some resolutions through to change the platform

13:18 Freerange Proctor: Ok Guys, I gotta fly. Share the wealth and the rest will follow.

13:18 Old McDunnough: That's excellent. Was there any followup?

13:18 Old McDunnough: thanks for coming

13:19 Ruby Glitter: Thanks for coming, Freerange.

13:19 Aldon Huffhines: Only that people were very pleased with the results... It faded away after that.

13:19 Aldon Huffhines: However, it did lead into a second project...

13:19 Old McDunnough: Sustainability is a big issues, so I'm glad the information and community had a life

13:19 Old McDunnough: (after the first project)

13:20 Aldon Huffhines: A friend iof mine in NC wanted to get progressive activists working together on resolutions to present at the state convention

13:20 Aldon Huffhines: We did a first pass at http://test.smartcampaigns.com where people submitted resolutions, rated them, commented upon them.

13:20 Old McDunnough: peer review legislation

13:20 Aldon Huffhines: It was well received and I set up http://www.draftingdemocracy.org

13:20 Aldon Huffhines: Yeah, very much. peer review legislation

13:20 Aldon Huffhines: The idea of Drafting Democracy was to carry this further and to get people to share resolutions across areas

13:21 Aldon Huffhines: For example, a resolution against the patriot act is as applicable in Chapel Hil NC, as it is in Wilton, CT

13:21 Mobile Widget is Offline

13:21 Aldon Huffhines: People played with it a bit leading up to the last NC state convention, but it has mostly been idle since.

13:22 Old McDunnough: Hopefully you can find some ways to re-use those communities.

13:22 Aldon Huffhines: Again, the standard problem of critical mass.

13:22 Mobile Widget is Online

13:22 You decline Outdoor Movie Theatre, BWI (109, 90, 30) from A group member named Ruby Glitter.

13:22 Aldon Huffhines: The technology is standing and ready to be used whenever anyone wants to...

13:22 Old McDunnough: In looking at politics in terms of new philosophies and metaphors, mutual politics is one things I am looking to implement as tech.

13:23 Aldon Huffhines: However no sense of community ever really developed.

13:23 Delia Lake is Online

13:23 Old McDunnough: Politics is about persuasion.

13:23 Old McDunnough: Two people come together. I have an idea. You have an idea. We meet to decide which idea is best.

13:23 Old McDunnough: Usually the two engage with the goal of convincing the other his idea is right.

13:23 Old McDunnough: Sometimes, it means compromise (both ideas are changed). That's harder to do when you, IMO, if your goal is to be right.

13:23 Old McDunnough: But what if we change that goal?

13:24 Old McDunnough: What if the goal of politics is understanding?

13:24 Old McDunnough: Mutual politics borrows from Relational-Cultural Theory (RCT)

13:24 Ruby Glitter: BTW, yay, NC! My local municipalities have passed several anti-PATRIOT Acta nd Anti-war resolutions.

13:24 Old McDunnough: Yay.

13:24 Old McDunnough: Anyone every heard of the Stone Center?

13:24 Aldon Huffhines: Yay NC!

13:24 Ruby Glitter: Sorry, I was reacting to Aldon's comments belatedly.

13:24 Ruby Glitter: Which one?

13:25 Old McDunnough: Wellesley

13:25 Old McDunnough: RCT developed by pioneer feminist Jean Baker Miller (who recently died) and Judith Jordan of Wellesley and Harvard.

13:25 Old McDunnough: RCT is a feminist approach to therapy, emphasizing connection rather than isolation.

13:25 Old McDunnough: I think it is a good model for a new kind of political exchange

13:26 Old McDunnough: It prompted the creation 3rd Party and an idea I have yet to develop, Politic Exchange.

13:26 Old McDunnough: So let me ask you, what metaphors do you use or do you encounter to describe politics?

13:26 Ruby Glitter: Now I know I may be weird, but to me politics is more about the expression of my values than about convincing folks.

13:27 Ruby Glitter: That wasn't in respons eto your question, just a general comment.

13:27 Old McDunnough: I think that is wonderful.

13:27 Old McDunnough: Asking someone to "talk politics" though usually has the response of Friend or Foe.

13:27 errcheck Hicks: Alliance and Platform are big drivers

13:28 Old McDunnough: Alliance being party labels, affiliations?

13:28 Old McDunnough: Platform being major issues?

13:28 Aldon Huffhines: A lot of my thinking is shaped around the Group Relations ideas, coming out of Wilfred Bion.

13:28 Hayduke Ebisu is Offline

13:28 Ruby Glitter: I consider myself extremely alienated from party politics as I am way left of state and national Democrats.

13:28 Old McDunnough: Could you explain more about that?

13:29 errcheck Hicks: Working together with other social groups, orgs, Platform being a set of important issues

13:29 Joshua Holder: Politics for me is 100% partisan labels. I've never wished to have a basis any deeper than that.

13:29 Old McDunnough: Really? Why is that?

13:30 Aldon Huffhines: Group Relations is based on applying Freud to groups. I think it is important to try and move the way groups think and operate.

13:30 errcheck Hicks: I beileve there has been a kind of label based reductionism used by the Republicans, to attempt to isolate and confuse people

13:30 Joshua Holder: I see my party as the best vehicle for positive social change in the US. So my work is always focused on winning an election, building a stronger party, etc. I let others worry about "A Theory of Justice" and so on.

13:30 Aldon Huffhines: Instead of counting people that support us or are against us, we need to be thinking about how we get people to change opinions.

13:30 Ruby Glitter: I just don't think the party is working for me or my values.

13:31 Ruby Glitter: I prefer to work on issues and movement-building that isn't dependent on party.

13:31 Old McDunnough: Aldon: RCT would probably not like the Freud part, but would also put the emphasis on the connection between the groups

13:31 Aldon Huffhines: Even if the party is working for me, then I need to get more people in the party.

13:31 Ruby Glitter: Although I support and even work for Dem candidates often.

13:31 Morris Vig: I think that Josh is onto something - that politics is the vehicle to affect change.

13:31 Aldon Huffhines: Yet the party includes blue dogs and yellow dogs. SO I want to get people in the party to be more progressive.

13:31 Old McDunnough: Politics is a machine, in other words. That is the metaphor

13:31 Joshua Holder: Yes, Morris. Though - for me, personally - it's partisan politcs that I see as the best vehicle.

13:32 Morris Vig: However, it takes social organizing, compromise and more to make the change happen.

13:32 Drew Frobozz is Online

13:32 Joshua Holder: Politics as machine sounds about right.

13:32 Old McDunnough: The problem with a two party system is that there are then only two political views being expressed through partisan identity.

13:32 Morris Vig: you think?

13:32 Old McDunnough: I believe politics is the relationship between people.

13:33 Old McDunnough: The more people are engaged with each other, the more likely understanding will take place.

13:33 Aldon Huffhines: That fits with my thoughts about GroupRelations.

13:33 Aldon Huffhines: It also gets to some of my frustrations with blogs...

13:33 Mobile Widget is Offline

13:34 Aldon Huffhines: Too often people get stuck in the echo chamber that fits their views, but don't end up talking to people with other opinions.

13:34 Krono Pro is Offline

13:34 Morris Vig: good point

13:34 errcheck Hicks: Politics is also social linguistics, where many words are, if I may say, abused

13:34 Old McDunnough: That's a very Orwellian thought.

13:34 Old McDunnough: Not the 1984 Orwell, but the one who complained about politics of language.

13:34 Old McDunnough: (same person, different focus)

13:35 Old McDunnough: There is so much identity wrapped up in the words we use, yet they are passed around very cheaply.

13:35 Old McDunnough: Another important concept is Local Emphasis. This isn't really revolutionary, except it isn't practiced much.

13:35 errcheck Hicks: I hear people saying that Bush didn't send enough troops...Democrats

13:35 Morris Vig: Power in language...a given

13:36 Old McDunnough: Not just power, but disconnected power.

13:36 Old McDunnough: We say the words, but the words have little bearing in our lives any more.

13:36 Old McDunnough: We say them because they are the common language that identifies our politics, in the machine sense of that word

13:37 Old McDunnough: We are very focused, in communities like this, in the media, and elsewhere, on national politics.

13:37 Old McDunnough: Who is President. Who is on the Supreme Court. How can we influence representation at that level. All valid concerns.

13:37 Ruby Glitter: What do you mean by Local Emphasis? I do a lot in local politics.

13:37 errcheck Hicks: It is possible to study the dynamics of Rhetoric and learn how to use it...but it is the ideas behind that count

13:37 Old McDunnough: Our political dialogues, as perceived by most, ar not about local issues.

13:37 Old McDunnough: They are about broad concepts, like Education and Defense.

13:38 Morris Vig: We need to invite George Lakoff to SL...

13:38 Old McDunnough: I'm speaking mostly from an online communities perspective here, although the water cooler political conversations don't focus as much on the highway going through town as they should.

13:38 Old McDunnough: the point is... How many Presidents do you know, personally?

13:39 Old McDunnough: How many Supreme Court judges? How many Congresspeople? ...

13:39 Old McDunnough: This group probably shouldn't answer the last one, or it ruins my point

13:39 Joshua Holder: How would online communities develop a local focus since a major component of them is their geographic diversity?

13:39 Old McDunnough: Are you familiar with the concepts of bridging and bonding?

13:40 Old McDunnough: Many are, but I want to be clear about terms

13:40 Joshua Holder: Not really.

13:40 Old McDunnough: Putnam's book in 2000, Bowling Alone, brought the terms more into the mainstream.

13:40 Old McDunnough: Bonding is when you interact with those who share the same interests.

13:40 Trevor Steptoe is Online

13:40 Aldon Huffhines: For that matter, 85% of people don't know who their State Reps are

13:40 Old McDunnough: Bridging is when you interact with those who may not.

13:40 Old McDunnough: (Oversimplified)

13:41 Joshua Holder: OK.

13:41 Markie Kendall is Online

13:41 Old McDunnough: Bonding is a reinforcing, supportive action. Bridging is more difficult, but it brings in new information. Bonding is insular.

13:41 Old McDunnough: Those things can work as a cycle, if a forum were constructed to emphasize that.

13:41 Aldon Huffhines: Old Mc: I often talk about Bonding vs Bridging. One of my concerns with a lot of blogging is that it is too focused on bonding, and not enough on bridging.

13:41 Old McDunnough: Yes, that is true.

13:41 Old McDunnough: Maybe the blog is meant to be a bonding tool. But can you see any way it might bridge?

13:42 Ruby Glitter: And that's OK with me.

13:42 Ruby Glitter: I'm not trying to change peopel minds, they already know what their values are.

13:42 Old McDunnough: I'm not sure I agree.

13:42 Ruby Glitter: That's OK too. :-)

13:42 Old McDunnough: People have values. But the expression - your term of politics - conflicts with the idea of politics as machine.

13:42 Aldon Huffhines: I try to keep my blogs very broad based, so that I'll draw in people with other views...

13:42 Aldon Huffhines: (Focus on Bridging)

13:43 Old McDunnough: Do your comments reflect that?

13:43 Aldon Huffhines: For example, more people come to my blog searching for information on Smoking Jackets than on any other topic...

13:43 Aldon Huffhines: I've had a lot of interesting discussions with conservatives that have visited my blog.

13:43 Aldon Huffhines: (Although I don't have a lot of comment discussions)

13:44 Old McDunnough: Same with wikis.

13:44 Old McDunnough: The medium isn't really built for discussion, even if it is used that way.

13:44 Ruby Glitter: I run a progressive local politics blog.

13:44 Ruby Glitter: We have a lot of debate there, as aby product of having opinions...

13:45 Old McDunnough: Ruby, can you describe the kind of bridging conversations that happen through your blog (on or offline)?

13:45 Morris Vig: But that's the difference b/t blogs/wikis/etc. and SL. unless you're using Scoop, your blog isn't doing any meaningful social organizing. Wikis can turn into flame-wars (ask Stephen Colbert).

13:45 Morris Vig: SL is a social network.

13:46 Old McDunnough: Blogs do have local impact, though, if locals know about them. If the subject matter and the conversation is accessible to locals.

13:46 Ruby Glitter: Not so much wiht the bridging...

13:46 Old McDunnough: Wikis that suffer from vandalism and edit wars typically have communities able to support and interven.

13:46 Aldon Huffhines: One interesting bridging blog in CT is Connecticut Local Politics

13:47 Ruby Glitter: It happens occasioanlly, but most of the ppl who read OrangePolitics already have their minds made up.

13:47 Ruby Glitter: This isn't what I wanted, but that's who's interested.

13:47 Aldon Huffhines: There have been lots of interesting discussions between the conservatives and the progaessives.

13:47 Ruby Glitter: All the local reporters and elected read it.

13:47 Old McDunnough: So, Ruby, you probably have a great experience communicating to and from people who are supportive.

13:47 Ruby Glitter: Well a lot of folks come there to argue with me, too.

13:47 Old McDunnough: How do they argue?

13:48 Ruby Glitter: They try to debunk my opinions. Or thos eof other authors on the blog.

13:48 Old McDunnough: Do you consider that constructive?

13:48 Old McDunnough: In other words, has that ever changed your mind on things?

13:49 Ruby Glitter: I don't liek it much, actually. It dosn't get to what i want to accomplish there, which is informing the community to get them engaged in local issues.

13:49 Ruby Glitter: But as long as it doesn't get nasty (whichit sometimes does), it's OK.

13:49 Morris Vig: We're a nation of litigator-wannabees. I want to win. And prove you wrong.

13:49 errcheck Hicks: Finding the bridging issues is key, like conservatives don't like the threats to habeus corpus

13:49 Ruby Glitter: It has helped me ot understand other perspectives.

13:49 Ruby Glitter: I dont knwo if it's changed my mind or not.

13:49 Old McDunnough: Those last three comments are all important.

13:49 Guest Book: Talk to me! Say 'gbhelp' for a list of commands.

13:49 Zebediah Godwin is Offline

13:49 Old McDunnough: As Morris said, we are about winning. That is our cultural goal.

13:50 Guest Book: Talk to me! Say 'gbhelp' for a list of commands.

13:50 Aldon Huffhines: I was on a panel with Richard Viguere. We actually found things to agree upon.

13:50 Old McDunnough: So adopting a politics of understanding is difficult.

13:50 Aldon Huffhines: He's an arch conservative who has written a book criticizing the Bush administration.

13:50 Morris Vig: darn straight it is

13:50 Markie Kendall: gbhelp

13:50 Ruby Glitter: we are all liberals in my county so I don't have to appeal to Repulicans to "win"

13:50 Morris Vig: nice position to be in, Ruby

13:50 errcheck Hicks: There is a tendency to use labels to divide people, however it cuts both ways, sometimes it is needed

13:50 Old McDunnough: But, Ruby, you should have to understand Republicans in order to make better sense of the world.

13:51 Aldon Huffhines: He and his friends hate big government. Progressives I know hate big business...

13:51 Ruby Glitter: But also, my whoe point is republicans already knwo what they think. Inedpendents may have more potential for common ground.

13:51 Aldon Huffhines: What we are both really looking for is a government of by and for the people....

13:51 Aldon Huffhines: I got both the progressives and the conservatives to applaud that.

13:51 Old McDunnough: Great, Aldon.

13:51 Old McDunnough: "Republicans already know what they think" is a strong statement, a strong presumption.

13:52 Old McDunnough: What works when considering Democrats debating Republicans, but not necessarily my neighbor Mr. Smith debating the local schoolteacher Mrs. Odboddy.

13:52 Morris Vig: Aldon - "the" people or "our" people? I think the GOP Revolution that ended last week ended the "our" people argument. The masses took the government back.

13:52 Aldon Huffhines: How much of that is own own projection? We know what we think, so we assume our 'opponets' know what they think...

13:52 Old McDunnough: In design, we term that predisposition.

13:52 Ruby Glitter: It's true I am projecting , Aldon. to be fair.

13:53 Old McDunnough: The part of the process that happens before research and insights.

13:53 Old McDunnough: You have to start there, because that is your understanding of the world. there is no other place to start.

13:53 Old McDunnough: The question is whether we stop there, too.

13:53 Aldon Huffhines: So, the more we can own our own uncertainty, the more we can helpothers own their own uncertainty and we can get a real dialog

13:53 Old McDunnough: well put

13:54 errcheck Hicks: I have read at least one intrepretation that the "Ruling Class" undermined the republicans because they were becoming too criminal. But that analysis is a little disempowering

13:54 Old McDunnough: there's only about 7 minutes left in this session, so I want to ask a question I ask everyone, hoping to get a good answer.

13:54 Old McDunnough: has anyone heard of Web Lab?

13:54 errcheck Hicks: No

13:54 Trevor Steptoe: No.

13:54 Old McDunnough: This shocks me, every time.

13:54 Old McDunnough: Web Lab's small group dialogue (http://www.weblab.org/home.html).

13:55 Morris Vig: nope

13:55 Old McDunnough: In 1998, at the height of the Clinton Impeachment hearings, Web Lab opened up a SGD forum called RealityCheck.

13:55 Old McDunnough: It was a lot like an unconference, actually, in that it brought a diverse group of people together, gave them a central theme - the Impeachment hearings - and let them go. The quality of discussion and strength of connection was unmatched, for me.

13:55 Ruby Glitter: Sure.

13:55 Ruby Glitter: Weblab's been around. My friend Jed used towork there.

13:55 Old McDunnough: Sure, you have heard of them?

13:55 Old McDunnough: WOW

13:55 Old McDunnough: I'll want to talk to you later.

13:55 Old McDunnough: I was Kevin in this group: http://www.reality-check.org/salon-bin/salon_bios2.cgi?salon=Dialogue+Group+7

13:55 Ruby Glitter: OK... ;-)

13:56 Old McDunnough: Changed my life, my whole thinking about forums

13:56 Old McDunnough: Small group Dialogue is an ide they explored there that had a few key elements restricting the forum

13:56 Old McDunnough: 1) Size. Only so many people are invited to participate in a forum. They experimented with different numbers, but I recall 60. Of those 60, you could slice everything into about 1/3 (20, 7, 3, 1) and be able to approximate how big the group was for each

13:57 Old McDunnough: I was among the 3, I'm sure.

13:57 Old McDunnough: 2) Time. There was an end in sight, the moment you joined. This was a huge factor in increasing engagement, because people didn't have to commit to Forever. It also allowed for a process of closure, and saying goodbye

13:57 Old McDunnough: 3) Accountability. This wasn't completely engineered. Everyone had a screen name, which could be anything, of course. But it was suggested that the first thing people do is introduce themselves.

13:57 Aldon Huffhines: I would also encourage people to check out The Tao of Democracy

13:57 Old McDunnough: People shared not just ideology, but age, profession, marital status, race, gender, personal philosophy, greatest traumas, motivation for joining ... The depth of the information made it very difficult to box people into partisan corners.

13:57 Old McDunnough: Do you have a link, Aldon?

13:58 Old McDunnough: 4) Efficiency. The posts were ordered in a way that made it eas(ier) to follow new conversations. There were digests sent out. Users had simple but effective controls.

13:58 Old McDunnough: I would add a 5th point: Diversity.

13:58 Aldon Huffhines: http://www.taoofdemocracy.com

13:58 Old McDunnough: Thanks.

13:58 Old McDunnough: The conversations were very rich because the community was intentionally diverse, filled with a mix of gender, economic status, marital status, ideology and overall life experience.

13:58 Old McDunnough: You couldn't bond with everybody on every topic, which created a very effective bridging community.

13:58 Old McDunnough: They ran out of funding, but still have the software just sitting around someplace.

13:59 Aldon Huffhines: From there, also check The Co-Intelligence Institute

13:59 Aldon Huffhines: http://www.co-intelligence.org

13:59 Old McDunnough: One of the guys involved with it is now working with NYC kids and has some efforts in Serious Games

13:59 Morris Vig: has anyone read Suriowecki's "The Wisdom of Crowds"?

13:59 Old McDunnough: This is a good example of a different philosophy about online community

13:59 Old McDunnough: Yes, Morris.

14:00 Ruby Glitter: Yes.

14:00 Morris Vig: I think that comes into play

14:00 Ruby Glitter: Actually, I read part of it.

14:00 Old McDunnough: Definitely.

14:00 Aldon Huffhines: Old Mc: I went to the Games for Social Change conference in NYC.

14:00 Ruby Glitter: I think his principle is mostly right, but I didn't enjoy the book.

14:00 Old McDunnough: We are a complex system, built upon complex systems.

14:00 Aldon Huffhines: I would love to see Games for Social Changes tied into what is going on here.

14:00 Morris Vig: Ruby - I'm with you.

14:00 Old McDunnough: Local rules of interaction, emergent behavior of the system

14:00 Old McDunnough: I would be very interested in that as well, Aldon

14:01 Old McDunnough: Well, that's time on the session.

14:01 Morris Vig: Thx Old

14:01 Old McDunnough: I'm not sure what's next up, but I thank you for the conversation and links.

14:01 Mobile Widget is Online

14:01 Joshua Holder: Thanks Old.

14:01 Ruby Glitter: Wow, I lost tracko fthe time!

14:01 Ruby Glitter: Thanks Kevin/Old!

14:01 Drew Frobozz: Thanks Old! :)

14:02 Old McDunnough: thank you

14:02 Drew Frobozz: Good stuff. So everyone stand up and streeeetch!

14:02 Ruby Glitter: /stretching in RL...

14:02 Drew Frobozz: and then we'll get into how to use Second Life to win back the White House in 2008! :)

14:02 Drew Frobozz: and then we'll party...

14:03 Viggo Engebretsen strecthes like a cat

14:03 Aldon Huffhines: It is nice to be able to fly as part of streching

14:04 Macario Actil: apparently the youth vote came out this election cycle, good newsa on that

14:04 Markie Kendall is Offline

14:05 Morris Vig: Wars tend to draw them into the political system

14:05 Joshua Holder: It did - but the percentage of young voters as part of the elecorate actually went dwn from 2004.

14:05 Medium Helvetic is Online

14:05 Aldon Huffhines: Yeah, numbers were up since the last midterm, but it is still very low.

14:05 Multi Gadget v1.49.3 by Timeless Prototype

14:05 Ruby Glitter: For teh newcomers: We will be posting the chat log and pictures of this session online. Please contact me if you object to this. Thanks!

14:06 Macario Actil: specifics on how SL may be used for the presidential race, obvious and not so obvious?

14:06 Drew Frobozz: yes :)

14:06 Drew Frobozz: Ok so session notes are posted here:

14:06 Drew Frobozz: https://rootscamp.pbwiki.com/RCSLDay7%20Using%20Second%20Life%20to%20Win%20the%202008%20Presidential%20Election

14:07 Drew Frobozz: Sorry for the ugly URL

14:07 Drew Frobozz: will fix later

14:07 Drew Frobozz: but for now, here's what I have in mind.

14:07 Drew Frobozz: 1) The Virtual Meetup Platform?

14:07 Drew Frobozz: 2) Make sure each campaign is here? Do What

14:07 Drew Frobozz: 3) Why/How valuable?

14:07 Drew Frobozz: 4) How partisan / narrow / broad?

14:08 Drew Frobozz: 5) How to enable?

14:08 Drew Frobozz: 6) Most relevant existing work already happening in SL?

14:08 Drew Frobozz: 7) RootsCamp Going Forward...

14:09 Drew Frobozz: So after being here a LOT over the past few weeks I'm convinced that SL will be a powerful platform for the Presidential race in 2008

14:09 Medium Helvetic is Offline

14:09 Drew Frobozz: quick poll before we get started here, and we'll do it again at the end... Who agrees with me on that?

14:09 Morris Vig: I can't agree yet, but I think that's more a function of my newness to SL.

14:10 Trevor Steptoe: I'm not so sure...

14:10 Aldon Huffhines: As much as I love SL, and have spent a lot of time here, I lean towards disagreeing.

14:10 Joshua Holder: I'll say "no" to begin with.

14:10 Drew Frobozz: ok and who has no opinion?

14:10 Morris Vig: SL has potential, that's for sure.

14:10 errcheck Hicks: I think it is possible

14:10 Ana Herzog: es possible

14:10 Old McDunnough: yes

14:10 Macario Actil: why disagreeing? how to fulfill SL potential?

14:10 Old McDunnough: (yes to the agree with thing)

14:10 Ruby Glitter: yeah, i'd go with "possible" but not certain.

14:10 Drew Frobozz: A broad range. Excellent! :)

14:10 Viggo Engebretsen: yes

14:11 Drew Frobozz: Ok so by way of background, I am biased-- I do naturally gravitate to new technologies and seek to push the envelope.

14:11 Drew Frobozz: CivicSpace has been my main project since the 2004 Presidential election.

14:12 Macario Actil: SL reaches niche of voters. good for infosharing w/ in campaign

14:12 Aldon Huffhines: CivicSpace is orders of magnitude more accessible.

14:12 Aldon Huffhines: I can only reach SL from one of my computers... The rest don't have good enough graphics cards.

14:13 Drew Frobozz: However, now that blogs, peer-to-peer voter calling applications, Flash videos, Meetup and MySpace are pretty well understood and widely used, I think it's worth looking to what's likely to be impactful by 2008

14:13 Trevor Steptoe: And more scalable, since sims can only host 100 people, max.

14:13 Old McDunnough: And the most important factor is media buzz, in some sense.

14:13 Drew Frobozz: And I think SL is well worth getting ahead of the curve on in that regard.

14:13 Morris Vig: Yes, buzz is important.

14:13 Drew Frobozz: So yes, today, SL is good at generating buzz, not good at reaching a lot of people en masse.

14:13 Old McDunnough: Lots of good can come out of the conversations and interaction in here, but politicians who use the tools effectively also get other points.

14:14 Trevor Steptoe: And good for small group meetings of techish users (like RootsCamp)

14:14 Aldon Huffhines: I couldn't get anyone in the Lamont campaign interested in Sl

14:14 Redaktisto Noble: I think SL will be introduced in 08 like blogging and moveon.org were introduced on a wide scale in 04. Full potential comes sometime after that.

14:14 Morris Vig: 850,000 users worldwide just isn't that much

14:14 errcheck Hicks: The problem may lie in the conflict between the terms mass and engagement, because engagement can be very personal and direct here.

14:15 Ruby Glitter: It took a couple of cycles for blogs ot sink in.

14:15 errcheck Hicks: But a Viral Video is a mass phenomenon

14:15 Morris Vig: agreed

14:15 Old McDunnough: This is active. MoveOn click-and-faxes are passive. I like the fact that you have to travel, not just type

14:15 Ana Herzog: this is a network that overlays other networks.... that can be quite valuable

14:15 Morris Vig: but you don't need to engage for an extended period of time like you do in SL

14:15 Aldon Huffhines: Yeah, I believe that one of the biggest benefits of SL may be producing SL based political machinima

14:16 Drew Frobozz: 1.3 million users..

14:16 Drew Frobozz: and growing 30% per month...

14:16 Morris Vig: my bad

14:16 Hayduke Ebisu is Online

14:16 Drew Frobozz: so it's more micro

14:16 Drew Frobozz: but it's a LOT deeper/richer

14:16 Drew Frobozz: however, that's actually where I see politics going-- more and more granular, such that a "California Doctors for Gore" group could be the primary vehicle for campaign organizing.... Peer to peer micrortargeting.

14:16 Trevor Steptoe: We should decide to discuss SL or something like SL. Second Life has specific technical problems that might never change. Shared 3D spaces don't necessarily have the limits of SL.

14:16 Drew Frobozz: when people build personal relationships, that yields deeper commitment.

14:17 Drew Frobozz: well I think we should also look at what CAN be done that is useful today in SL

14:17 Ana Herzog: sending an avatar to a meeting has appeal for those of us aging cyber punks

14:17 Viggo Engebretsen nods at ana's comment

14:17 Aldon Huffhines: When you look at other 3D environments, I encourage people tocheck out Blender... It is open source

14:17 Drew Frobozz: it will only get better by 2008 in terms of scalability, but if we do work that be done NOW, then we're assured that it's possible.

14:18 Morris Vig: Agreed, Drew.

14:18 Drew Frobozz: That's why I started with the analog of the virtual meetup platform

14:18 Drew Frobozz: Meetups don't typically have as many as 80 people at a meeting

14:18 Drew Frobozz: and yet there are 1000s of them

14:18 Drew Frobozz: and they made a big impact in 2004, especially on early organizing for Clark and Dean

14:18 Drew Frobozz: And just as RootsCamp in SL has utility

14:18 Morris Vig: But Linden has to grow to scale.good times....

14:19 Ana Herzog: think of this a one local that happens to be borderless

14:19 Ana Herzog: international

14:19 Ana Herzog: cross state

14:19 Drew Frobozz: because RL RootsCamps aren't accessible to everyone and are limited to geographically local participants.... yes

14:19 Aldon Huffhines: As an aside, I would encourage people to read Zephyr Teachout and Tim Wu's Op-Ed in the Washington Post...

14:19 Aldon Huffhines: Where they talk about SL...

14:19 Aldon Huffhines: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/11/03/AR2006110301472.html

14:19 Drew Frobozz: yes a good op-ed

14:19 errcheck Hicks: The real power of SL it's geographically unlimited, so it should first build intercommunity networks

14:20 Aldon Huffhines: One question that I have is, does the 3D component add much besides the media buzz, technical difficulties etc.

14:20 Aldon Huffhines: Would we be beetter off focusing on text based shat rooms?

14:20 Aldon Huffhines: In manyways, we are currently using this space right now more as a text based chat than anything else

14:20 Ana Herzog: no this provides a neurochemical connection that pure text doesn't

14:20 Ruby Glitter: Aldon, i think SL's real advtange over text is that it build stronger relationships becasue we are able to be more expressive here.

14:20 Old McDunnough: I think the key is the avatar. There is a personal investment in the being, and therefore more importance given to what is done with it.

14:21 Drew Frobozz: So for Meetups, for people in Fargo who may not get a Gore meetup for a while, they could start to participate here...

14:21 Morris Vig: Aldon, SL has an experiential element. Check out the Camp Darfur or the Center for Water Studies on this island.

14:21 Viggo Engebretsen nods again agreeing with ana and with old

14:21 Aldon Huffhines: But it also limits the people who will participate.

14:21 Hayduke Ebisu: it also allows for immersive environments in which to educate people about issues in ways text chat can't

14:21 Effulgent Brown agrees, yahoo chat has gone so downhill

14:21 errcheck Hicks: I think the visual environment enriches the conversation

14:21 Ruby Glitter: What Ana said.

14:21 Drew Frobozz: Another analog use case is campaign field staff / offices...

14:21 Drew Frobozz: so by 2008 I do think there will be broad adoption of SL by active organizers, and I think it will be a very effective way to coordinate among organizers at the least.

14:21 Old McDunnough: yes, Aldon. So does chat. So does email.

14:21 Trevor Steptoe: Aldon: Identity is so important if you want to avoid flame wars. Text rooms provide little in the way of identity or context.

14:21 Old McDunnough: I think there has to be some conscious knowledge of who is being excluded by the choice of communication channel

14:21 Aldon Huffhines: Trevor, my experince with chats with persistent identies has been very different.

14:22 Old McDunnough: But that doesn't make the choice a bad one

14:22 Trevor Steptoe: But whether we need full 3d? Probably not.

14:22 Aldon Huffhines: Old Mc: I think that is the important part...

14:22 Morris Vig: If you don't leverage the possibilities of 3-D, you'r right.

14:22 Hayduke Ebisu: we probably don't need color monitors, but yet we use them because they add to the experience

14:22 Hayduke Ebisu: 3d is the same way

14:22 Ana Herzog: true this is not inclusive. but it is a locale for those folks who can suspend disbelief

14:22 Aldon Huffhines: Part of what was successful with the Lamont campaign was getting people to reach beyond online to the offline.

14:22 Aldon Huffhines: The more complicated the platform, the wider the digital divide.

14:23 Old McDunnough: I loved the postcard program

14:23 Ana Herzog: but we are here. let's talk about what we CAN do!

14:23 Old McDunnough: These channels can work together

14:23 Ana Herzog: what doors it opens

14:23 Drew Frobozz: point here is NOT to reach everyone Aldon

14:23 Hayduke Ebisu: ana: good point

14:23 Drew Frobozz: some companies (IBM, Crayon) are already doing a lot of team collaboration in SL, and I think campaign staff could benefit from same.

14:23 Drew Frobozz: and that would be particularly releveant for NATIONAL elections

14:23 Trevor Steptoe: SL doesn't bridge to other communication platforms (muc), but there is no reason a 3D space couldn't allow people to IM into it or get still "webcam" images out.

14:23 Drew Frobozz: and NATIONAL issue coalitions

14:24 Effulgent Brown: i think this can help people who are new to this whole thing, get more comfy with the whole idea, and carry it over to rl

14:24 Hayduke Ebisu: trevor... you cann do everything you just mentioned within SL

14:24 Hayduke Ebisu: lots of gateways in and out

14:24 Hayduke Ebisu: they just aren't easy

14:24 Trevor Steptoe: Hayduke: People who don't know to get libsl apps can't IM into it, no?

14:24 Drew Frobozz: and yes Trevor-- there is a lot of precedent for two-way synch between SL and RL events.

14:25 Trevor Steptoe: Hayduke: and how can I set up a webcam in SL and see the results on the web when I'm not logged in?

14:25 Effulgent Brown: is there like a library here

14:25 Hayduke Ebisu: that'

14:25 Hayduke Ebisu: trevor: I don't have the URL, but that is being done

14:25 Aldon Huffhines: There is a good library here, I'm told...

14:25 Effulgent Brown: that would be good for getting people involved to learn more in their own time i think

14:26 Aldon Huffhines: I met a guy who has been working with a large group of people building out the library.

14:26 Ana Herzog: build it and they will cone

14:26 Drew Frobozz: so I think there's 1) a Meetup analog use case, 2) a campaign staff/organizer collaboration analog use case, and 3) a campaign media event analog use case.

14:26 Drew Frobozz: Any others?

14:26 Effulgent Brown: i dont know if a webcam is possible but if you have a pearbook, it can send chat outside sl

14:26 Morris Vig: Experiental immersion

14:26 Ana Herzog: kick emin the ass use case

14:26 Morris Vig: lol

14:26 Drew Frobozz: How about Machinima --> viral videos?

14:26 Effulgent Brown: hehehe

14:27 Ana Herzog: the video potential is enormous

14:27 Morris Vig: "im in ur SL, casting ur votz"

14:27 Hayduke Ebisu: how about using the 3d environment to help immersively educate people about the issues for which we stand?

14:27 Trevor Steptoe: morris: ha!

14:27 Effulgent Brown: yeah

14:27 Joshua Holder: Why would SL-created Machinima be any more...viral as a viral video compared to a regular clip?

14:27 Morris Vig: Hayduke - U got it.

14:27 Ana Herzog: anticipate the 2007 and 08 needs and build for them

14:27 Aldon Huffhines: AsI mentioned earlier, I think videos is where you get the most potential... It gets around some of the barriers to entry

14:27 Ana Herzog: the darfur example per issues

14:28 errcheck Hicks: People come to second life looking for adventure, and we can make it for them

14:28 Morris Vig: lord that is good

14:28 Hayduke Ebisu: you can quite easily show people the effects of global climate change here

14:28 Hayduke Ebisu: or the ravages of war

14:28 Hayduke Ebisu: or whatever

14:28 Old McDunnough: nice

14:28 Ana Herzog: war climate what else?

14:28 Drew Frobozz: yes how about simply making politics interesting and fun for people that don't already find it so?

14:28 Ana Herzog: YES!

14:28 Morris Vig: I can't emphasize this point enough - this is perhaps the unique differentiator of SL

14:29 Hayduke Ebisu: deforestation, reef damage, poverty, access to medical carae

14:29 Ana Herzog: we need candidate skins

14:29 Hayduke Ebisu: walk a few miles in someone else's shoes

14:29 Effulgent Brown: at the very least it could be used to make movies that would be impossible in rl, casting calls and fun stuff too

14:29 Hayduke Ebisu: what is it like for someone without health insurance to go to a hospital

14:29 Old McDunnough: I can't recall the name of it any more, but there is a online-offline game genre that has had some interest in recent years.

14:29 Hayduke Ebisu: and be faced with the choice of choosing between their child's needs and the family's needs for food

14:29 Hayduke Ebisu: fore xample

14:29 Drew Frobozz: Ana-- YES-- next on the agenda once we agree somewhat on what is useful-- what practical steps could we take to facilitate...

14:29 Old McDunnough: Basically, using web, email, IM and other channels to play a game in the real world.

14:30 Ana Herzog: talk to people in clubs about what they want, know, are interested in, want out of government

14:30 Ana Herzog: a lot of gamers aren't political

14:30 Ana Herzog: but could be

14:30 Old McDunnough: This environment could have such games embedded in the culture, all with a point of making statements, educating people and encouraging interaction

14:30 Hayduke Ebisu: old: yes

14:30 Aldon Huffhines: Sounds a bit like LARPing, Old Mc.

14:30 Old McDunnough: If the game is intersting enough to play, the messages will find some ears

14:30 Morris Vig: You could, at an individual campaign level, use SL to share a candidate's life story, career, issues, etc. in ways that websites could just scratch.

14:30 Ana Herzog: a dick cheney dunking booth (lava not water?)

14:30 Hayduke Ebisu: morris: good idea

14:31 Effulgent Brown: hehehe

14:31 Hayduke Ebisu: lol

14:31 Drew Frobozz: so re: Cheney that's interesting...

14:31 Morris Vig: The Camp Darfur model is very illustrative of the possibilities.

14:31 errcheck Hicks: Interactive self-progressing adventure games are big and underlie every successful video game

14:32 Effulgent Brown: have many of you been to numbakulla

14:32 Drew Frobozz: seriously-- would "pro" candidate work here w/ avatars of candidate and campaign events and videos be most effective? or parodies or even "attack media"?

14:32 Morris Vig: integrated video, free comics/t-shirts, guided tour, 1st person testimonials....it goes on an on.

14:32 Trevor Steptoe: I don't know. I guess I just don't buy into the idea of using SL entertainment to draw people into politics. How is SL going to be better than the Daily Show?

14:32 Effulgent Brown: its sorta a game within this game that does that

14:32 Drew Frobozz: "Swift Boat Simulator..."

14:32 Morris Vig: lol

14:32 Drew Frobozz: showing Kerry getting nicked in the foot and hopping up and down....

14:32 Ruby Glitter: it's not either/or SL or Daily Show.

14:32 Effulgent Brown: you could watch the daily show in here lol

14:33 Ruby Glitter: The Daily Show might cover things we do in here.

14:33 Ana Herzog: life is a viral sexually trnasmitted disease. i vote for parody, inversion, and MEANING!

14:33 Effulgent Brown: ooh colbert fan culb

14:33 errcheck Hicks: I think the point would be to try to go deeper into issues/education

14:33 Effulgent Brown: club

14:33 Stacy Narayan is Online

14:33 Morris Vig: truthiness for SL!

14:33 Drew Frobozz: yeah a daily machima "segment" created by people here each day then shown on Daily Show each night...

14:33 Effulgent Brown: lol

14:33 Drew Frobozz: Colbert already has tried running an animation series.

14:33 Morris Vig: definition request: machima

14:33 Hayduke Ebisu: We need to move beyond just bringing regular life things in here and really using the strengths of this environment to create new paradigms

14:34 Ana Herzog: there is room for it all. but some groups have to focus on specific venues/

14:34 Aldon Huffhines: Machinima: Videos made using video games, like Second life

14:34 errcheck Hicks: Actually an Avatar of Colbert with recorded key phrases would be great

14:34 Morris Vig: thx aldon

14:34 Hayduke Ebisu: this is an immersive, collaborative environment that allows for very different types of interactions than the web, the Daily Show, etc.

14:34 Aldon Huffhines: Check out a few samples I did at http://ahynes1.blip.tv

14:34 Ana Herzog: so much good info being shared here

14:35 Drew Frobozz: the most powerful thing for me about SL has been the high velocity building of high-trust relationships

14:35 Drew Frobozz: and trust in politics is a huge thing

14:35 Aldon Huffhines: Ana, I would LOVE to see Code Pink making machinima here!

14:35 Ana Herzog: i just want to figure out how to drop a banner on property i don't own.

14:35 Effulgent Brown: yeah

14:35 Hayduke Ebisu: ana: woo hoo!

14:35 Effulgent Brown: hehehe yay, madea

14:35 Aldon Huffhines: Heh!

14:35 Drew Frobozz: so that's why I'm most excited about the "meetup" and "organizer collaboration" applications

14:35 Hayduke Ebisu: easy if they have build on!

14:35 Morris Vig: A major challenge of using SL to reach the SL masses is marketing. How to ovrecome the casinos and XXX?

14:36 Trevor Steptoe: Hayduke: Agreed, yet people have limited time to spend on entertainment, and activists have limited time... So choosing to compete with the DS for people's entertainment time seems... rich.

14:36 Hayduke Ebisu: Morris: have you been to Info Island? It gets more traffic than any casino

14:36 Drew Frobozz: Morris-- well partly by creating groups here doing other types of compelling work, and also by bringing in people from OUR RL communities to work with us in SL

14:36 Hayduke Ebisu: people in SL gravitate towards the things they care about: surprise surprise

14:36 Effulgent Brown: how about a politics info place

14:36 Morris Vig: but that's one location.

14:36 Aldon Huffhines: Trevor, I think the idea is to avoid the zero sum problem...

14:36 Drew Frobozz: dilute the casinos...

14:36 Old McDunnough: Ana, re: the dropping a banner ... Is the airspace free?

14:36 Hayduke Ebisu: location = attention in here, morris

14:36 Aldon Huffhines: Get people who are here already to start doing political stuff...

14:36 Drew Frobozz: most major technology-media revolutions have been driven by sex and gambling

14:37 Ana Herzog: campaign everywhere by talking issues.

14:37 Drew Frobozz: but that doesn't last. other applications mature and follow

14:37 Effulgent Brown: people usually come back to places where they can hang out and socialize that are open

14:37 Aldon Huffhines: I wore my Ned Lamont button to casinos here.

14:37 Ana Herzog: "i'd love to have sex with your avi but i'm too worried about global warming....."

14:37 Hayduke Ebisu: ana: lol!

14:37 Drew Frobozz: lol

14:37 Trevor Steptoe: Ana: Ha!

14:37 Effulgent Brown: those casino's and xxx places spend a lot of time fudging their numbers too i think

14:37 Ana Herzog: I'm serious!

14:37 Morris Vig: RL calls. Bye!

14:37 Old McDunnough: bye

14:38 Drew Frobozz: how about inexpensive focus groups / polling here?

14:38 errcheck Hicks: They harvest newbies, which we better think about

14:38 Coene Soyuz: The first task of any activist group is to find those who are politically interested. Trying to attract new members from the politically inactive comes second.

14:38 Drew Frobozz: focus groups are a big $$$ investment these days for candidates

14:38 Old McDunnough: That's interesting, Drew. I wonder if you would get a higher response to surveys and the like in this environment?

14:38 Aldon Huffhines: I would really worry about sampling baises

14:38 Ana Herzog: is the average age here still 30 with more women than men?

14:38 Effulgent Brown: people who come to sl and are political at all probably blog, and go to chat, this is a good place for them to collaborate

14:39 Hayduke Ebisu: yes, ana

14:39 Drew Frobozz: plenty of cheap "currency" to compensate people with here...

14:39 Hayduke Ebisu: average age was 35 last time I asked a linden

14:39 Ana Herzog: excellent

14:39 Hayduke Ebisu: the potential for target demographics for progressives is stunning

14:39 Drew Frobozz: yes the people here are a desireable demographic for fundraising departments.

14:39 Ana Herzog: old enough to be political

14:40 Old McDunnough: I'm sure it suffers from the same kinds of biases as the Internet did when it started. POssibly not as much, gender wise, I don't know. that changes with maturation of the medium

14:40 Hayduke Ebisu: perfect age, women, trying cutting edge technology, usually educated, etc

14:40 Drew Frobozz: and people here tend to be highly socially networked in their RL lives I believe

14:40 Drew Frobozz: so if you reach them here, they in turn reach many out there...

14:40 Old McDunnough: the other thing to keep in mind is that it is a new culture, so actions today become traditions tomorrow

14:40 Hayduke Ebisu: drew: yes

14:40 Ana Herzog: this could be a key network to reach other networks

14:41 Effulgent Brown: there are lots of documentaries that people never see in rl like "the corporation" and "smartest guys in the room" that can be funneled into sl for movie parties

14:41 Aldon Huffhines: I like the idea of SL movie partis...

14:41 Drew Frobozz: yes the House Party permutation of Meetups could be huge here

14:41 Aldon Huffhines: I'm trying to promte more face to face movie mparties for the same reason

14:41 Ruby Glitter: I would come here for movies/

14:42 Drew Frobozz: so turning briefly to Statewide, local, I think the potential to involve people from outside your District meaningfully in your campaign if huge here.